tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post3427150791495336585..comments2023-10-11T03:43:28.302-04:00Comments on Confessions of a Science Librarian: Some provocative statementsJohn Dupuishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09829396649299444557noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-88546321439157474052009-08-19T15:45:48.926-04:002009-08-19T15:45:48.926-04:00Thanks, Anon. I suspected as much.Thanks, Anon. I suspected as much.John Dupuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829396649299444557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-21362574644269504572009-08-17T15:14:32.994-04:002009-08-17T15:14:32.994-04:00I was a library AD for six years, and I can certif...I was a library AD for six years, and I can certify that your take on #1 was on target. Library administrators really DO fantasize about how awesome it would be if they could just fire people and ignore all that pesky tenure stuff. Any administrator who says otherwise is lying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-67943287471956531262009-04-04T14:56:00.000-04:002009-04-04T14:56:00.000-04:00Yeah, Joe. They're great. As I noted in FF somew...Yeah, Joe. They're great. <BR/><BR/>As I noted in FF somewhere, the Darien statements are CC licensed so we can all just republish and remix them ourselves (with attribution, of course). I'll do that for sure this weekend or next week. Spreading the word and restating our commitment to those values is something that we should probably do more often.John Dupuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829396649299444557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-59568213834508762282009-04-03T19:53:00.000-04:002009-04-03T19:53:00.000-04:00I know John already knows about this, but others f...I know John already knows about this, but others following this thread might enjoy reading the Blyberg, Greenhill and Trainor statements -- http://www.blyberg.net/2009/04/03/the-darien-statements-on-the-library-and-librarians/Joseph Kraushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05929426552639540819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-41053453190175248142009-04-03T10:38:00.000-04:002009-04-03T10:38:00.000-04:00totally agree with you John, esp on the tone of th...totally agree with you John, esp on the tone of these statements; much prefer your take on this whole issue...just my .02 as someone who works in the trenches and is tired of this rather pedantic and superior tone from above...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-38278328594514765612009-04-03T07:17:00.000-04:002009-04-03T07:17:00.000-04:00I did forget to mention in my comment that I think...I did forget to mention in my comment that I think you were absolutely correct that TAIGA failed to take advantage of the tools and technologies to allow for commenting and conversation. <BR/><BR/>I believe when this was done in 2006 the idea was that it would be a topic for discussion in libraries and at library organization meetings - not a web discussion. But this is 2009 and it's an oversight to not have easy ways for librarians to comment and create a conversation. So if they ever do this again, that is a definite area for improvement.<BR/><BR/>Yes, the statements are harsh, but I don't think there is an intent to demean librarians. Some are presented as worse case scenarios - a future that could be but that we certainly want to avoid. The idea, I believe, is to engage librarians in a "how do we avoid this future" discussion. Perhaps the statements just don't express that sentiment well enough.<BR/><BR/>But I would certainly hope that rather than divide library administators from their colleagues, we'd use these statements as a way to share our perspectives and figure out together how we make our academic libraries sustainable. I think that's the intent for inspiring change. <BR/><BR/>Starting over sounds fine to me - as does a conversation over a beer.stevenbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10971047635163060958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-77840839004316071292009-04-02T23:11:00.000-04:002009-04-02T23:11:00.000-04:00Hi Stevenb, thanks for the comment. My tone is har...Hi Stevenb, thanks for the comment. <BR/><BR/>My tone is harsh, yes, but frankly that's the reaction I had. So on that level your provocation was very successful. <BR/><BR/>My tone is also derisive and that's probably not completely called for but again, the tone of the statements was also scathing and derisive of libraries and librarians.<BR/><BR/>As for "let's take these self-important bastards down a notch," I'll cop to that. It's not pretty but it's honest and I apologize if I crossed the line. However, the statements aren't pretty either but they are your group's honest expression.<BR/><BR/>As for whether the takedown is deserved, well, I quote the statements: "Librarians who do not produce will be reassigned or fired." "The only collection development activities involving librarians will be competition over special collections and archives." "University administrators will see<BR/>that librarians do not have the skills they need"<BR/><BR/>To that I'll add, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.<BR/><BR/>Walt expressed very nicely in his post -- I think I did achieve some small part of what Jon Stewart is able to do.<BR/><BR/>Suggestions for next time? Try something a little more open and a little more broadly based. Provoke to inspire change, not despair.<BR/><BR/>But really I mean it when I say no harm, no foul. Let start from scratch next time and share a beer if we're ever at the same conference.John Dupuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829396649299444557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-63119312161195712032009-04-02T22:30:00.000-04:002009-04-02T22:30:00.000-04:00Ok John, you gave us some of the feedback we were ...Ok John, you gave us some of the feedback we were looking for. When the folks who put these statements together do so, there's no way of knowing how people will react. It resonates with some. Others have a pretty negative reaction. You have to be open to any possibility.<BR/><BR/> Not even everyone involved agrees whether they are provocative or not. But the spirit is to question what's ahead, and to offer something that creates some conversation about the possibilities. Clearly, in your opinion, the statements don't live up to the expectations of the audience.<BR/><BR/>What I find a bit disturbing though is that the commentary is as much an attack on the people as the ideas. I'm not sure where the "let's take these self-important bastards down a notch" attitude in your post and the comments is coming from. You and others may think that's deserved. Knowing the folks who work on this and what they're trying to accomplish, I have to disagree. <BR/><BR/>Guess we'll have to do a better job the next time we create some provocative statements - and make sure we don't discuss anything that you've already written about.stevenbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10971047635163060958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-56889759961094728892009-04-02T10:01:00.000-04:002009-04-02T10:01:00.000-04:00Thanks.Re: PMR.I found it refreshing that although...Thanks.<BR/><BR/>Re: PMR.<BR/><BR/>I found it refreshing that although he started with the assumption that we're all useless and dead, he did seem willing to at least listen and learn. Hopefully, we can listen and learn from him as well and see where we can improve.<BR/><BR/>At the end of the day, there's a lot of mutual misunderstanding between scientists and librarians. It's hard to know which is more of an issue: them not understanding us or us not understanding them.John Dupuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829396649299444557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-15416986693408049032009-04-01T13:36:00.000-04:002009-04-01T13:36:00.000-04:00BRAVO. Well done, John.And Mita, agreed on all cou...BRAVO. Well done, John.<BR/><BR/>And Mita, agreed on all counts on PMR. :)Dorotheahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04140402663592388379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-89251891249743012512009-04-01T11:17:00.000-04:002009-04-01T11:17:00.000-04:00Understood. I didn't agree with pmr's starting pre...Understood. I didn't agree with pmr's starting premises (how again is it librarians fault that faculty signed their copyright away?) but at least he was making an honest effort of trying to understand the library world. <BR/><BR/>I'm sure the folks at Taiga also had put in some thought into their statements. I just wish they they had shared some of the reasons why they said the things they did.Mitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17662779929151451964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-69977922550500523012009-04-01T11:09:00.000-04:002009-04-01T11:09:00.000-04:00It was a dirty job, but someone had to do it.I'd a...It was a dirty job, but someone had to do it.<BR/><BR/>I'd actually sort of forgotten about wanting to fisk the provocative statements until the whole PMR thing came up. Since commenting in detail on his very numerous posts wasn't that practical and needling the Provocateurs was like shooting fish in a barrel, well, it was an easy choice.John Dupuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829396649299444557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3831412.post-57447472264174324612009-04-01T10:43:00.000-04:002009-04-01T10:43:00.000-04:00My initial reaction was "Oh - you folks write down...My initial reaction was "Oh - you folks write down ten sentences and then sit back and expect everyone else to do the heavy work in refuting it. That's hardly fair."Mitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17662779929151451964noreply@blogger.com